Governments around the world are currently rethinking their approach to the economy and reflecting on their overall goals, and this is triggering many questions about how best to structure organisations, large and small, so as to improve our chances of achieving those goals. This podcast includes interviews with people at an international gathering organised by the NGO Metaphorum. They are working on applying the cybernetician Stafford Beer’s Viable Systems Model in different domains in order to help restructure organisations in a way that can maximise the autonomy of the people involved, ensure that vital needs are being met and enable easy communication. Projects range from the UN’s Sustainable Development Goals to a community-based health project in the a UK town. Interviewees include Jon Walker, the co-author (with Angela Espinosa) of the book “A Complexity Approach to Sustainability”; Ian Kendrick, a strategic innovator; and Mike Bewick, a former senior advisor in the UK’s National Health Service.

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