In the face of destruction, we should create. In the face of hurt, we should heal. In the face of hate, we should love. That's my feeling and figuring out how to do that is everybody's job.I’ve known Sheila James for 25 years as an arts funder colleague, artist, filmmaker, writer, but also her work as an equity expert, social activist and as a family friend. Our conversation began with an overview of her views on equity and how it differs from equality. For example: Equity is actually acknowledging that for some people who are disadvantaged, you need to do more. You can't just say, everything's fair. Everybody gets the same bowl of pudding. We also touched on equity in the arts such as the biases and systemic injustices that exist within cultural institutions. We also talked about the historical context of arts funding in Canada, notably missed opportunities for support of Indigenous and diverse cultural practices.We also talked about Sheila’s multidisciplinary art practice, including her writing. I clearly recall reading The Arrangement, from her book of short stories, In the Wake of Loss, at the cottage and feeling a deep connection with her engaging stories as I walked in the forest. I asked Sheila to talk about her new novel ‘Outcaste’, published by Goose Lane Editions, launched on May 7, 2024. It explores caste and class complexities in Hyderabad during India’s independence, highlighting a communist rebellion, caste dynamics, and land reform. I was pleased that Sheila agreed to read two excerpts from this novel that bring to life the struggles and resilience of her characters. The first you’ll hear is set in 1948 in Korampally, India and is about the character Malika, a Muslim peasant imparting her hopes for her daughter amidst rebellion. It will be followed by an excerpt from Sheila’s You Will have Worth.The second excerpt is set in 1997 in Toronto and is about Anya visiting her grandfather Irwin at the Queen Street Mental Health Centre. This section reflects upon familial bonds and emotional support in grief. It will be followed by an excerpt from Sheila’s Thru The Eyes.As we spoke about her book and literature more generally, Sheila emphasized the importance of empathy when engaging with characters in the book. I like the way she encourages readers to find compassion even for the most detestable characters, as this can foster understanding and potential for redemption, for example : I hope that if people are picking up the book, that they're very open minded and try to read the characters or listen to the characters where they're at. There are some horrendous sort of characters, or I should say, there are some people who do some horrendous things in this book. Our conversation concluded around the responsibilities of artists in today’s complex world, emphasizing the importance of listening, questioning, and dreaming.I like Sheila’s thinking on this: I love the idea of listening and really taking that time to listen, because I don't think we do that enough and that means listening not only to the things we want to hear, but the sides that we don't want to hear of.Sheila is currently reading for the second time:The In-Between World of Vikram Lall by M.G. VassanjiAnd reading for the first time: Salvage : Readings from the Wreck by Dionne Brand
*END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODESHey conscient listeners, I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020. It’s my way to give back.This Indigenous Land Acknowledgement statement was developed by members of the Algonquin community for my former employer the Canada Council for the Arts. I have adapted slightly to make it my own.I acknowledge that my studio, located in Ottawa, is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence here reaches back to time immemorial.I recognize the Algonquins as the customary keepers and defenders of the Ottawa River Watershed and its tributaries. I honour their long history of welcoming many Nations to this beautiful territory and uphold and uplift the voice and values of our Host Nation.Further, I offer my respect and affirm the inherent and Treaty Rights of all Indigenous Peoples across this land and honour commitments to self-determination and sovereignty that have been made to Indigenous Nations and Peoples.I acknowledge the historical oppression of lands, cultures and the original Peoples in what we now know as Canada and fervently believe the Arts contribute to the healing and decolonizing journey we all share togetherIn parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.Share what you like, etcI am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. Claude SchryerLatest update on January 9, 2026

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