Nadya Williams talks with Geoffrey Kurtz about Ignazio Silone's Bread and Wine, exploring its political, spiritual, and literary significance. They discuss what makes a classic, Silone's shift from communism to a more open-ended moral vision, the novel's blend of politics and clandestine faith, and the transformation of its protagonist, Pietro Spina, through solitude and friendship. Chapters 00:02 – Silone's author's note and the idea of rewriting one's "soul book" 02:29 – Defining a classic: resonance across time and place 04:24 – Silone's life, politics, and exile 08:54 – From political collapse to becoming a novelist 11:00 – The 1936 and 1955 editions: from didactic to subtle 13:13 – Setting and premise of Bread and Wine 14:35 – Disguise, solitude, and unexpected friendships 17:45 – Growth in character and writing craft 18:10 – How much is Spina autobiographical? 21:51 – Political and religious dimensions rooted in the same moral impulse 24:53 – Don Benedetto as a bridge between action and contemplation 29:33 – God's clandestine presence in the novel 31:08 – Solitude as the seed of transformation 35:48 – Loneliness, community, and the longing for safe relationships 36:30 – Reception in Italy, the U.S., and among leftists and Catholics 43:50 – Politics bounded by love and human dignity 47:26 – Kurtz's intellectual journey and democratic socialism 50:55 – On "democratic socialist" vs. "social democrat" 51:38 – Current reading: Wendell Berry and parallels to Silone 54:21 – A classic Kurtz wishes he'd written Links Geoffrey Kurtz, "How to Be a Liberal-Socialist-Conservative" Geoffrey Kurtz, Jean Jaurès: The Inner Life of Social Democracy

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