In this episode of The 5 O' Clock Apron Podcast, Claire cooks with her friend and academic, Ellen Hughes. Ellen's take on baking an apple cake with no recipe was an eye opening experience for Claire, one she'll never forget. Truth is, we were going to use this recording as a test for the podcast, but on listening to the episode, we all agreed that if anyone could teach Claire to relinquish her need for an accurate recipe when it comes to baking a cake, it was Ellen and her instructions for a "fistful of butter". The cake came out beautifully, their conversation on food, family and the juggle, a tonic. Enjoy.

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