This episode I talk to Hugo and Nebula award-winning author Charlie Jane Anders! In this chat, we discuss her work, including how she gets inside her characters' heads, challenging the traditional ideas of protagonist and antagonist, and writing your way through personal challenges. We discuss examples from her work including All the Birds in the Sky, City in the Middle of the Night, as well as her latest book, Lessons in Magic and Disaster.Chapters:00:00 - Intro04:30 - Leading the Reader into the Darkness10:52 - Character Perspectives 14:40 - Protagonists and Antagonists and Neither16:49 - Points of View and Structure26:11 - Young Adult Perspectives32:52 - Defamiliarization in Science Fiction41:11 - Finding the Perspective46:04 - Writing Through Personal Challenge51:53 - OutroCharlie Jane's Information:Charlie Jane Anders is the author of Lessons in Magic and Disaster, coming August 2025 from Tor Books. Her other novels include All the Birds in the Sky, The City in the Middle of the Night and the young-adult Unstoppable trilogy. She's also the author of the short story collection Even Greater Mistakes, and Never Say You Can't Survive, a book about how to use creative writing to get through hard times.She's won the Hugo, Nebula, Sturgeon, Lambda Literary, Crawford and Locus Awards. She co-created Escapade, a transgender superhero, for Marvel Comics and wrote her into the long-running New Mutants comic. And she's currently the science fiction and fantasy book reviewer for the Washington Post. With Annalee Newitz, she co-hosts the podcast Our Opinions Are Correct.charliejaneanders.combuttondown.email/charliejaneCharlie Jane's Books Mentioned:All the Birds in the SkyCity in the Middle of the NightVictories Greater than Death (first in the Unstoppable Trilogy)Never Say You Can't SurviveEven Greater MistakesLessons in Magic and DisasterCharlie Jane Anders Photo credit: Sarah Deragon/Portraits to the PeopleVisit theepilogue.net to view our interviews, sign up for our newsletter, and watch for upcoming member bonuses such as extended interviews and full video.

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