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Listen "The Third Round: Man, spirit and angels – as states of consciousness"
Episode Synopsis
What are the things that we possess that are held in common with spirits and angels?
Doctrine of Sacred Scripture 70. VII. THE WORD IS IN ALL THE HEAVENS, AND IS THE SOURCE OF ANGELIC WISDOM. Hitherto it has not been known that the Word is in the heavens, nor could it be made known so long as the church was ignorant that angels and spirits are men like the men in this world, and that they possess in every respect like things to those possessed by men, with the sole difference that they themselves are spiritual, and that all things they possess are from a spiritual origin; while men in this world are natural, and all things they possess are from a natural origin. So long as this fact was hidden it could not be known that the Word exists in the heavens also, and is read by angels there, and also by spirits who are beneath the heavens. But that this might not be forever hidden, it has been granted me to be in company with angels and spirits, to converse with them, see what exists with them, and afterwards relate many things that I have heard and seen. This has been done in Heaven and Hell, published in London in 1758; in which work it may be seen that angels and spirits are men, and that they possess in abundance all things that men possess in this world. That angels and spirits are men, may be seen in that work (n. 73-77, and 453-456). That they possess like things to those possessed by men in this world (n. 170-190); also that they have Divine worship, and preachings in places of worship (n. 221-227); that they have writings and also books (n. 258-264); and that they have the Word (n. 259).
The natural mind thinks in space and time, the spiritual mind does not
Heaven and Hell 57 ... It may be mentioned what a man has in common with an angel and what he has in addition to what angels have. A man has this in common with an angel, that his interiors are equally conformed to the image of heaven and that he, too, in so far as he is in the good of love and faith, may become an image of heaven. In addition to what angels have, a man has these things, that his exteriors have been formed according to the image of the world, that so far as he is in good, the world with him is subordinated to heaven and serves heaven, 4 and that then the Lord is present with him in both worlds, just as if he were in his heaven. For the Lord is in His Divine order in both worlds, since God is order.
Conjugial Love 328. We then withdrew, and speaking further on this subject, I said: "These distinctions exist solely because you, being in the spiritual world and therefore being yourselves spiritual, are in things substantial and not in things material, and things substantial are the beginnings of things material. You are in principles and thus in simples, while we are in principiates and compounds. You are in particulars, we in generals; and just as generals cannot enter into particulars, so neither can things natural, which are material, enter into things spiritual, which are substantial, exactly as a ship's cable cannot enter or be drawn through the eye of a needle, or a nerve enter or be drawn into one of the fiber of which it consists, or a fiber into one of the fibrils of which it consists. This, moreover, is known in the world, it being the consensus of the learned, that there is no influx of the natural into the spiritual but only of the spiritual into the natural. This then is the reason why the natural man cannot think the thoughts which the spiritual man thinks, and therefore cannot speak them. Therefore Paul says that the words which he heard out of the third heaven were unutterable.
[2] Add to this, that to think spiritually is to think apart from time and space, and to think naturally is to think with time and space; for something of time and space adheres to every idea of natural thought, but not to any spiritual idea. The reason is, because the spiritual world is not in space and time like the natural world,
Doctrine of Sacred Scripture 70. VII. THE WORD IS IN ALL THE HEAVENS, AND IS THE SOURCE OF ANGELIC WISDOM. Hitherto it has not been known that the Word is in the heavens, nor could it be made known so long as the church was ignorant that angels and spirits are men like the men in this world, and that they possess in every respect like things to those possessed by men, with the sole difference that they themselves are spiritual, and that all things they possess are from a spiritual origin; while men in this world are natural, and all things they possess are from a natural origin. So long as this fact was hidden it could not be known that the Word exists in the heavens also, and is read by angels there, and also by spirits who are beneath the heavens. But that this might not be forever hidden, it has been granted me to be in company with angels and spirits, to converse with them, see what exists with them, and afterwards relate many things that I have heard and seen. This has been done in Heaven and Hell, published in London in 1758; in which work it may be seen that angels and spirits are men, and that they possess in abundance all things that men possess in this world. That angels and spirits are men, may be seen in that work (n. 73-77, and 453-456). That they possess like things to those possessed by men in this world (n. 170-190); also that they have Divine worship, and preachings in places of worship (n. 221-227); that they have writings and also books (n. 258-264); and that they have the Word (n. 259).
The natural mind thinks in space and time, the spiritual mind does not
Heaven and Hell 57 ... It may be mentioned what a man has in common with an angel and what he has in addition to what angels have. A man has this in common with an angel, that his interiors are equally conformed to the image of heaven and that he, too, in so far as he is in the good of love and faith, may become an image of heaven. In addition to what angels have, a man has these things, that his exteriors have been formed according to the image of the world, that so far as he is in good, the world with him is subordinated to heaven and serves heaven, 4 and that then the Lord is present with him in both worlds, just as if he were in his heaven. For the Lord is in His Divine order in both worlds, since God is order.
Conjugial Love 328. We then withdrew, and speaking further on this subject, I said: "These distinctions exist solely because you, being in the spiritual world and therefore being yourselves spiritual, are in things substantial and not in things material, and things substantial are the beginnings of things material. You are in principles and thus in simples, while we are in principiates and compounds. You are in particulars, we in generals; and just as generals cannot enter into particulars, so neither can things natural, which are material, enter into things spiritual, which are substantial, exactly as a ship's cable cannot enter or be drawn through the eye of a needle, or a nerve enter or be drawn into one of the fiber of which it consists, or a fiber into one of the fibrils of which it consists. This, moreover, is known in the world, it being the consensus of the learned, that there is no influx of the natural into the spiritual but only of the spiritual into the natural. This then is the reason why the natural man cannot think the thoughts which the spiritual man thinks, and therefore cannot speak them. Therefore Paul says that the words which he heard out of the third heaven were unutterable.
[2] Add to this, that to think spiritually is to think apart from time and space, and to think naturally is to think with time and space; for something of time and space adheres to every idea of natural thought, but not to any spiritual idea. The reason is, because the spiritual world is not in space and time like the natural world,
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