Carl Lentz was an unusual pastor to his New York City sheep and they loved every moment of him. Until they didn't. Long before Lentz's famous fall, Nate, a native New Yorker was on the production team at Carl's NY franchise, and he joins us again with his fiance, Gail, a Canadian, who also comes from a background of evangelicalism. We chat about Carl, and Josh, and Darnell, and what it's like to SERVE under the KING ... we also have a fun time talking about what's the point of Brian Houston? and the hooks that these snake oil shepherds use to keep their sheep in line.. the guilt, and so often.. the feeling of responsibility for others in a church where there are predators and threats.So come visit New York with us, me, Tanya, and Gail, and Nate and let's chat! Oh and check out Full Mutuality, the podcast by the pod guests! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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