The twenty years since 9/11 have seen the growth of the "Surveillance State," with the proliferation of government surveillance following the enactment of the USA PATRIOT Act. On this episode, Debra Perlin is joined by Hasan Ali from Microsoft and Greg Nojeim from the Center for Democracy and Technology to discuss how increased surveillance has changed the way Americans think about privacy. They will also take a step back and ask not if we need more surveillance to deal with rising threats of domestic terrorism and public health crises, but if perhaps we already have too much. ----------------- Join the Progressive Legal Movement Today: ACSLaw.org Today's Host: Debra Perlin, Director of Policy and Program at ACS Guest: Hasan Ali, Assistant General Counsel for Cloud and AI Projects at Microsoft Guest: Greg Nojeim, Senior Counsel and Co-Director of the Security and Surveillance Project Visit the Podcast Website: Broken Law Podcast Email the Show: [email protected] Follow ACS on Social Media: Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn | YouTube ----------------- Production House: Flint Stone Media Copyright of American Constitution Society 2021.Visit the Podcast Website: Broken Law Podcast Email the Show: [email protected] Follow ACS on Social Media: Facebook | Instagram | Bluesky | LinkedIn | YouTube -----------------Broken Law: About the law, who it serves, and who it doesn’t.----------------- Production House: Flint Stone Media Copyright of American Constitution Society 2025.

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